I agree that the number and quality of mods is problematic. Rather than prohibiting or seeking further control, I propose a clearer and more rational organization so that everyone can see directly what interests them.
I made a suggestion for a new interface here.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2058501#post2058501
For my part, I confine myself to turbos and GTRs.
It's very likely that the AI will leave me behind with the BF1, which I haven't tried in many, many years.I rarely drive and have my phone within reach. I'm not the ideal companion for online races...hence the need for AI.
I do like you. I always start in last position. I rarely completed the race before the mod system. I get bored from the first lap without anyone in front. With the mod system I tinker with cars adapted to my level. You can do the same thing very easily.
Unfortunately, my level of English does not allow me to evaluate yours. I was just trying to make your job easier. I know, from our previous discussions, how precious your time is.
Great erudition. Otherwise, same speech, same conciseness.https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
Mods seem to benefit more from the effect of the D40 patch than historical LFS cars.
Thank you very much Loopingz. I say this without animosity or provocation. Please, try not to take it the wrong way. This is a little off-topic in relation to the patch, but it's been tickling me for a while.Everyone has their reasons, occasional or permanent, for not playing online. Sometimes lack of time is enough. But the use of AI is not limited to solo racers and learning. You can play against the AI to relax. Nobody is relaxed with mad people who want to run you off the track, or give you a driving lesson (when they have never driven a real car in their life). LFS is a game. Is this prohibited to just have fun with ? What kind of existence do you have to be able to imagine that LFS is something truly competitive? A place where some are there to teach and others to learn ! A group of great keyboard VIPs here to educate the noobs! It's crazy
. I'm one of the uncompetitive people online who rides with a mushroom picker setup and I'm way too fast for the AI. Guess what bothers me the most?
Better AI would make this game more popular. The first to benefit would be online racers, because the servers would mathematically attract more people and perhaps, no offence to the vipers, better trained and motivated. Better AI will benefit LFS and all its users. (I know that this exceeds the ambition of this patch and that the priorities lie elsewhere).
More generally, it is wrong to believe that on one side there are good racers with their online statistics, their world records (
and their various little tips and tricks to play who has the biggest?) and on the other, the trolls who have nothing to do here, and who slow down the development of LFS with their absurd and useless demands.Unfortunately, no one has the power to decide that a game is massively multiplayer. Some visionary developers can work hard to create a great multiplayer game, and fight to keep it that way. The public will use this game because of its best asset. I'm not sure, for various reasons that deserve to be analysed in details (and without spoiling the discussion), that multiplayer is LFS's best asset today.
This is why improving the AI seems more important today than before (like the mod system which was not in the DNA of LFS from day one, but which now gives a little oxygen).
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To return to patch D40.
The iA is much better, undeniably. And I'm already very happy with that.
There are still some small points that I don't know if the patch can easily help fix (but I can live with).
* AI driving is more realistic and their times more constant. The AI is also more uniform in these behaviours. Is it possible to accentuate the personality of the virtual drivers a little, with more varied aggression or abilities in the same level group?
* The AI seems faster with modified cars than with LFS cars. (Or I drive mods even worse than LFS cars
) Is it possible that AI driven LFS cars are as competitive as mods?* In races with different cars, the AI seems slower (too slow). Would it be possible to take advantage of this patch to speed up the AI's ?
Perhaps an organization of this type would be more appropriate for the Mods system (The attached rudimentary model does not make for a decent graphical proposition it just gives an idea).
Each choice of checkboxes could modify the classes available in the drop-down list and thus facilitate the display.
We could also introduce more meaningful classes like:
Oldtimers (before 1970)
Youngtimers (1980-2000)
H-pattern gearbox
Paddle and sequential
Etc.
It also seems important to me to highlight in separate choices mods with authorized derivatives as a specific category. It would also be appropriate to shed more light on the creator(s) of the original mod compared to its derivatives. Thus the number of derivatives would attest to the success of the original mod. Currently, the original creator disappears behind the derivatives. I understand that under these conditions, few modders authorize derivatives.
it just gives an idea).Each choice of checkboxes could modify the classes available in the drop-down list and thus facilitate the display.
We could also introduce more meaningful classes like:
Oldtimers (before 1970)
Youngtimers (1980-2000)
H-pattern gearbox
Paddle and sequential
Etc.
It also seems important to me to highlight in separate choices mods with authorized derivatives as a specific category. It would also be appropriate to shed more light on the creator(s) of the original mod compared to its derivatives. Thus the number of derivatives would attest to the success of the original mod. Currently, the original creator disappears behind the derivatives. I understand that under these conditions, few modders authorize derivatives.
Great mod, great sound. Good handling. Skynnable without LOD problem. Default setup "ready to drive", Derivatives allowed. A perfect mod for LFS.Thank you so much
.
Last edited by Avraham Vandezwin, .
Reason : Typo
Hi Scawen,
It is very likely that LFS is used by more than 300 people per day around the world. If they are not online, it may be because many of them are playing alone against the AI. Thanks for thinking of them too
I understand that this is not the priority and that it makes people complain who are waiting for other important updates. But LFS also needs more competitive quality AI and more accessible and unifying online challenges (perhaps also a basic single player championship mod, but that's off topic ).
As an exclusive solo player (who has very little time for testing), I responded on the topic of patch 40.
It is very likely that LFS is used by more than 300 people per day around the world. If they are not online, it may be because many of them are playing alone against the AI. Thanks for thinking of them too
I understand that this is not the priority and that it makes people complain who are waiting for other important updates. But LFS also needs more competitive quality AI and more accessible and unifying online challenges (perhaps also a basic single player championship mod, but that's off topic
).As an exclusive solo player (who has very little time for testing), I responded on the topic of patch 40.
I have two installations of LFS, one with patch 36 and the other with patch 40, and I did the same races.
1) Against 16 AI in FZ5 equipped with Slick (test mod).
No notable changes. Perhaps fewer collisions at blocking points, especially after the first ISSC hairpin.
2) More interesting, 16 AI, SLX180 TYPEX MOD ( excellent ! https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/35D799).
Very chaotic start with patch 36, with a lot of collisions in the first turns, then many exits from the track with a lot of AI in the grass.
With patch 40, normal start, slowdown without collisions at the first turns. Normal race, AI on the track. Less contact with the AI when overtaking.
In summary (for a very quick test) impossible race with patch 36. Pleasant race with patch 40.
I can repeat the same protocol (or improve something?) during my next sessions, if this is useful.
For me and for now, it's much better.
1) Against 16 AI in FZ5 equipped with Slick (test mod).
No notable changes. Perhaps fewer collisions at blocking points, especially after the first ISSC hairpin.
2) More interesting, 16 AI, SLX180 TYPEX MOD (
excellent ! https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/35D799).Very chaotic start with patch 36, with a lot of collisions in the first turns, then many exits from the track with a lot of AI in the grass.
With patch 40, normal start, slowdown without collisions at the first turns. Normal race, AI on the track. Less contact with the AI when overtaking.
In summary (for a very quick test) impossible race with patch 36. Pleasant race with patch 40.
I can repeat the same protocol (or improve something?) during my next sessions, if this is useful.
For me and for now, it's much better.Superb modeling with lots of beautiful details. Well done.
I'm very excited to try this.
You make LFS a true automobile museum. I like this.
I'm very excited to try this.
You make LFS a true automobile museum. I like this.Many solo players have found ways to improve their AI experience without releasing their mods.
With the mod system, calibrating an AI that matches your performance level is very simple and takes less than a minute.
For example, with my modified version of the XRT, the AI did 1:25.55 yesterday on BlackWood GP. With the original version of the XRT, the AI runs at 1:31.23 (with my desktop, which I don't play with).
With cars modified to make the AI faster, the AI behaviour is neither better nor worse.
You're right. Or at least we are of the same opinion
Most of us no longer have twelve and a half years and dozens of hours a week to train. That's why some here think racing with fixed settings would reinvigorate online racing.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/102700
IMHO races with fixed setups could even constitute a category in their own right, with specific world records, championships etc.
Another great project off to a good start.Will we have the illustrious privilege of having a GT86 CS-CUP version and/or a GT86 CS-V3?
Anyway, great job Houssem, once again.
Undeniably, you know how to find the words to motivate people to play online. If on top of that if we risk getting flattened by net terrors like Leo, who confuse LFS & Destruction Derby, better to play solo against the AI. To Leo's parents: No joke, this seems to confirm that 9 years old is a bit young to play online with adults in a somewhat serious and competitive car game. Or, you have to find a LFS server that acts as a daycare center where Leo can let off steam quietly with children his age
If Leo and Leo's parents are one, it's ugly (and scary) to pretend to be a 9-year-old just for the sake of ruining other people's gaming experience
Last edited by Avraham Vandezwin, .
It's been far too long since I stopped playing online to really be able to help you. Sorry.
Maybe you could find a well run server where other players will know your son's age and be kind? Or find him a league, so he can be chaperoned? Or organize only private races?
Someone will probably end up offering you something concrete.
Maybe you could find a well run server where other players will know your son's age and be kind? Or find him a league, so he can be chaperoned? Or organize only private races?
Someone will probably end up offering you something concrete.Hello,
I am not qualified to answer you. You will need to discuss this with the developers and administrators. I can only give you my opinion as a parent.
I often played online with my son and his friends in the early years of LFS. The atmosphere was better and the exchanges more cordial. But my son was already much older than yours (about fifteen). 9 years old seems a bit young compared to other players to play alone online.
By the way, to be completely honest, at first I thought your post was a joke.
I am not qualified to answer you. You will need to discuss this with the developers and administrators. I can only give you my opinion as a parent.
I often played online with my son and his friends in the early years of LFS. The atmosphere was better and the exchanges more cordial. But my son was already much older than yours (about fifteen). 9 years old seems a bit young compared to other players to play alone online.
By the way, to be completely honest, at first I thought your post was a joke
.I allow myself to answer you because the name of the mod also challenged me
.Obviously, I cannot replace the author of the mod and my knowledge of French is limited. I think it's a syntax error. The use of the imperative for the verb "REGARDER" does not seem appropriate to me and may seem vindictive here, even disrespectful.
If we read "REGARD D'ANCHOIS"(anchovy look)" instead of "REGARDE ANCHOIS"(look, anchovy)", everything is explained by the image. Animal inspiration is very common in automotive design.
[Of course, this comment does not detract from the quality of the mod that I have not yet had the pleasure of testing. And a little poetry in mod names never hurt anyone]
You are right and you are not dreaming. The awesome simulators you mention exist. Real racers do indeed use them to learn tracks and test basic settings.But as sophisticated as they are, these awesome simulators are no substitute for real driving. Professional drivers do not (to my knowledge) have the same sensations as in a real car with simulator. Also, their lap times are usually worse than simracers. Not least because their driving is more realistic and they take fewer absurd risks. And no simulator can transcribe all the subtleties of a race track.
In a car game, no matter how good the physics are, players don't drive like in real life. The reference to reality makes little sense. Moreover, many players have achieved world records without ever having driven a real car
.In a game, with good hardware and plenty of time, even a worm-eaten stool would manage to approach a decent lap time
.What's important (to me too
) is that the car is fun to drive and does what a real 'comparable' car would do in the same situation. The fact that the virtual technical characteristics are exactly the same as the real ones does not matter. The only possible comparison is with other racers.That's why, in order to compare and for multiplayer races to be fun, everyone should have the same chances. I think it's much more essential than cosmetic considerations. No one should have an outsized advantage with an alien setup or cheat. But that's another tricky subject
.EDIT: The first time I put my butt in a kart, home computing barely existed. I was far from imagining that we would one day have pc games like LFS. I still left everyone behind. I'm not sure I can do that with LFS
Last edited by Avraham Vandezwin, .
What I mean is that LFS may be the last game of its kind. A game "handmade" by "real people" without big financial means. A game created from an extraordinary visionary creative impulse far ahead of its time, with a beautiful spirit of sharing and generosity.Today the car games market is dominated by mercantile ambitions and purely reproductive cosmetic artifices. Some racers want to be able to imagine themselves in the shoes of real drivers driving real cars on real tracks identical to those of real life. All of this is understandable but perfectly ridiculous.
The digital reproduction of a real car or a real track, even faithful, has little relation to reality. This does not prevent car simulation from being demanding, fun and sporty.
Simracing has (should not...) have no need for the mirror of reality to seduce. This is the reason why the argument of the representation of reality seems puerile to me. And I say "conformism" because people (not all) seem to expect LFS to become like other games. However, I think that LFS, in its concept of a shifted relationship to reality based on the quality of physics, embodies the quintessence of automotive simulation, the antithesis of other flatly reproductive games.
When I drive the XRT, I don't know what I'm driving "Exactly" ? But I don't care.
I drive. 
[sorry, in the language of Shakespeare, I struggle to be concise and clear]
What is realism in simracing? Broad topic ! It is problematic, if not a little ridiculous, that the racing simulation fails to free itself further from the strict reproduction of reality.
Of course, a virtual car must have common characteristics with real cars. It can also be interesting that the virtual tracks are based on real tracks. Because sometimes it's a safer way to produce a cohesive track, easier than starting from scratch.
But the strict reproduction of existing cars, teams, sponsors, tracks and environments is purely cosmetic. The attraction of racers for artifice penalizes a game like LFS which focuses on the essentials.
Such categorical desertions are also a reflection of the dominant conformism. The main thing for a car simulation is the quality of the physics and the fun of the races. Graphics and content are certainly important, but secondary. 20 years later, people are still having fun with 3 cars on Blackwood...
IMHO, LFS must cultivate its difference and innovate more rather than trying to resemble other games.
But that's another big topic...Undeniably. It is also possible that, for various reasons, the number of solo players has become greater than the number of online players, even on the best days.
To test the potential of the idea, it would be enough for the mod system to allow the appropriate limitations. And then only allow cars with the fixed configuration on a server.
Of course, it would be necessary to communicate a little outside this forum on this new type of races on LFS. Otherwise, these races will fill up with the usual racers, to the detriment of other LFS servers. It would be possible to do the same thing in demo.
For the choice of the setup, it is not very difficult to find better setups than the default setup. The choice is up to (I think) the modder, who can also submit his choice to the community.
IMHO, fixed setups would bring more solutions than problems. Maybe I'm wrong ? But I don't see any downsides.
It's just that Scawen needs to implement a throttling option. A priori, it doesn't look super complicated (even if things are often more complicated than it seems at the time of coding)
Could you possibly please add a poll to your thread to check the popularity of fixed configuration races on the forum?
Of course, it would be necessary to communicate a little outside this forum on this new type of races on LFS. Otherwise, these races will fill up with the usual racers, to the detriment of other LFS servers. It would be possible to do the same thing in demo.
For the choice of the setup, it is not very difficult to find better setups than the default setup
. The choice is up to (I think) the modder, who can also submit his choice to the community.IMHO, fixed setups would bring more solutions than problems. Maybe I'm wrong ? But I don't see any downsides.
It's just that Scawen needs to implement a throttling option. A priori, it doesn't look super complicated (even if things are often more complicated than it seems at the time of coding)
Could you possibly please add a poll to your thread to check the popularity of fixed configuration races on the forum?FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG